Wikipedia talk:Categorization

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Diffusing or not?[edit]

Should people in Category:Sportspeople from Denver be in Category:People from Denver? I'm picking sportspeople and Denver as an example. In general, are occupations from place treated as WP:DUPCAT or not? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:26, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

None of the categories "Sportspeople from …" are marked with Template:Non-diffusing subcategory, no? So why should they? Apart from what's mentioned at WP:DUPCAT, there are no general rules, but there are of course oodles of categories that are marked as non-diffusing. I don't know the process that determines that. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment on categorisation of recipients of honours and awards[edit]

Are too many categories for recipients of state honours and awards being deleted? Please see Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#RfC on WP:OCAWARD. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:22, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories § Prioritizing search results[edit]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories § Prioritizing search results. --Trialpears (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:People from Foo City[edit]

Input would be gratefully received at User talk:Rathfelder#People from Foo. Thanks. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

New title year templates, Copycat update[edit]

For those who don't hang out at Template talk:Title year, I've created some new templates that will hopefully be useful to editors working on categories - {{Title year+1}}, {{Title year-1}}, {{Title year2range}}, {{Title year2range+1}} and {{Title year2range-1}}, the latter using the new {{Year2range}} template. I've also fixed {{Copycat}} so it works off the sidebar again, and it now looks for year ranges as well (although doesn't work quite the same way for them). I've been on a Wikibreak for a bit so I don't think I thanked Pppery for sorting out all the safesubsts on Copycat, I'd got as far as thinking that safesubst might be useful but the documentation was particularly opaque! Le Deluge (talk) 00:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Subcategorization of erotic photographers and pornographic actors[edit]

Request for input: In a widespread and repeated fashion, Helpfulwikieditoryay has been removing categories for erotic photographers by nationality from the general categories for photographers by nationality and removing categories for pornographic actors by nationality from the general categories for actors by nationality. For instance, here they removed Category:American photographers as a parent category of Category:American erotic photographers. Similarly, here they removed Category:Canadian male film actors as a parent category of Category:Canadian male pornographic film actors. There are dozens more. Place Clichy and I have both inquired about this on the user's talk page here, but we haven't really made much progress. Things are venturing into the land of edit warring (me included), so I thought I would bring this here for comment. Who is correctly categorizing? Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Removing Category:fooian photographers as parent to Category:fooian erotic photographers is clearly against the principles of WP:SUBCAT. Helpfulwikieditoryay's remark, "I'd rather be correct than just take mob rule", doesn't bode well. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:36, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
You don't put British writers under British people, because British people is not for listing out occupations. There is a British people by occupation category under British people. Similarly, you don't put British pornographic actors under British actors, because British actors is not for listing out genres. You would put that in British actors by genre. British actors by genre can go under British actors. We need to go parent-child. Not grandparent-child. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 04:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
British writers are British people and are so categorised, via Category:British people by occupation. Not having Category:American photographers by genre doesn't mean that American erotic photographers are not American photographers. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:33, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Typical example of these problematic edits: removing Category:Lists of pornographic film actors from Category:Lists of film actors with edit comment "not for genre" while the removed category contains e.g. List of action film actors. This came after the same edit was reverted together with a talk page message explaining the revert. This pattern is repeated on dozens of pages and categories.
On substance, erotic photographers are photographers, and pornographic actors are actors. They need to be categorized as such per the categorization guidelines, as well as in the correct geographical which were also removed by these edits. A self-imposed noble cause of cutting off the racy stuff from the tree falls in direct contradiction with WP:Wikipedia is not censored, part of a Wikipedia policy.
The BOLD, revert, discuss cycle is appropriate at this stage. Helpfulwikieditoryay made a number of bold edits, which is encouraged, was reverted and invited to join discussion first on their talk page and now on the present general discussion. I hope that these discussions will help us reach (or repeat) consensus. However the editor should be warned that new attempts to repeat edits that have been reverted by several editors and while a discussion is in progress amount to WP:edit warring, for which a policy may result in having them blocked from editing. Place Clichy (talk) 08:47, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
If I'm reading the discussion on their talk page correctly, Helpfulwikieditoryay seems to think that, for example, Category:Pornographic film actors from Wisconsin should be in Category:Actors from Wisconsin by genre (if that were to exist) and not in Category:Actors from Wisconsin, which is... where "Actors from Wisconsin by genre" would be were it to exist... This reasoning, while very misguided, at least seems like they actually have a point of some sort, but then of course you see that they also removed Category:Erotic photographers from Category:Photographers by genre or type and Category:Photographers by subject, which does not at all align with their previous reasoning and belies their actual motivation of removing erotic categories from nonerotic categories. These edits are clearly unconstructive and need to stop. Aerin17 (talk) 16:01, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Helpfulwikieditoryay is clearly misguided. We dont have to have intermediate categories like Category:Actors from Wisconsin by genre in order to categorise Wisconsin actors by genre, and in some situations they can be unhelpful. Rathfelder (talk) 08:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

More problems[edit]

Agree - he has now started on subs of Category:Printmakers with equally dire results, completely removing from the tree people with no appropriate national sub-category. He should be banned from making category edits at all, something we are much too slow to do. No doubt he means well, but that does not reduce the damage. Johnbod (talk) 13:34, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Please don't ask for users to be banned over minor disagreements. I wouldn't be able to work on wikipedia at all if I was prevented from something so important. I wouldn't be able to create full articles and the articles would be left incomplete. It's crazy that you are asking for someone to be banned over this. Edits like mine are very common on wikipedia (and have not had complaints), hence why I did them in the first place. I haven't asked for you to be banned. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 03:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
And now with Category:Engravers. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:21, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
User:Helpfulwikieditoryay created yesterday Category:Lohengrin and started populating it. It's not clear what the scope of that category might be. However, it is clear, given the category's members, that the original categories of that category were inappropriate:
So I removed them and added Category:Wikipedia categories named after people instead. Helpfulwikieditoryay then partly reverted my edit, re-adding Category:Operas by Richard Wagner and Category:German-language operas, and freshly adding Category:Libretti by Richard Wagner; omitting "Wikipedia categories named after people". Those opera-related categories apply to 2 members of that category, and place 9 other entries in utterly wrong parts of the category tree. (Neuschwanstein Castle and Ludwig II of Bavaria are now operas and libretti?) I suggest that Helpfulwikieditoryay needs some tutoring in how categories work on Wikipedia. Further, the rationale of Category:Lohengrin might be worth discussing, too. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:48, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Sorry I don't think you understand what the category is. The category is Lohengrin. Lohengrin is an German opera by Richard Wagner. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 02:57, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
If Category:Lohengrin is an eponymous category for Lohengrin (opera); a) why isn't it named that way? b) why is it not in Category:Wikipedia categories named after works of art or Category:Wikipedia categories named after fictional characters? c) why are Wilhelm Hauschild, Ferdinand Leeke, Heinrich Lefler, Ludwig II of Bavaria, Rosa von Milde, Neuschwanstein Castle in that category? I know there is a connection, but that seems not defining for the subjects nor the opera. Lastly, the parent categories of Category:Lohengrin (Operas by Richard Wagner, Arthurian literature in German, German-language operas, Libretti by Richard Wagner) apply to exactly 1 member of the category, and are inappropriate in the categorisation scheme. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:41, 11 July 2021 (UTC)